Where to Listen:
We are breathing in and ingesting tiny plastic particles called microplastics and nanoplastics all the time. According to a recent study, tissues in a typical adult brain contain the equivalent of a plastic spoon’s worth of plastic particles. In this episode, find out what all that plastic accumulating in our brains, arteries and reproductive systems could mean for our health–and what we can do about it.
Host:
Amy Barrilleaux
Guest:
Kayla Rinderknecht, Population Health Fellow, Clean Wisconsin
Resources for You:
Microplastics in our Bodies: Exposures and Potential Health Harms
Under the Lens: Microplastics in our Environment and Our Bodies
Transcript:
Amy Welcome to the Defender Podcast. I’m Amy Barrilleaux. The Defender is powered by Clean Wisconsin, protecting Wisconsin’s air, land, and water since 1970. So let’s talk about the 1970s. If you’re a child of the 70s or 80s or earlier, you might remember that those yellow toy Tonka Trucks used to be made of metal. So were lunchboxes, trash cans, and dustpans. Brooms were made out of wood and straw. But over time, everything in our lives started to become more and more plastic. And now, apparently, so are we. We’re breathing in and ingesting tiny plastic particles called microplastics all the time. According to one study, an average person’s brain contains enough microplastic to make a plastic spoon. So yeah, this is pretty unpleasant stuff to think about, but we’re going to talk about it. In this episode, we look at what all the plastic in our bodies could be doing to our health and how to protect ourselves. That’s right now on The Defender. How much is plastic hurting us? Some new research paints a shocking picture of what microplastics are doing to our bodies. And Clean Wisconsin is pulling it all together and getting it out to the public as part of a new initiative that connects pollution in our environment with public health issues. Joining me is Kayla Rinderknecht, population health fellow, who’s helping lead on this project. Before we get to plastic, I think this work of really looking at topics like this, the impact of pollution. and toxic chemicals and contamination on our health can be kind of a heavy thing to think about. So what made you want to get into this field and really start looking at these things?
Kayla Yeah, I think people in public health and even environmental work can be burned out pretty quickly. But for me, why I wanted to do this was I think everyone has the right to be healthy. When I started my public health journey or joined the public health world, I was originally interested in looking at access to healthcare. So who had access, who didn’t have access, and why was that happening? and As I continued my public health journey, I realized and was taught that there are many other determinants and factors that influence a person’s or a community’s health beyond access to healthcare. And then I realized that not everyone has the same opportunities to that basic right of being healthy and that includes, you know, where they live or work or play. And you know the environment impacts everyone and it surrounds us daily. and To me, it’s clear that if we don’t tackle environmental issues like pollution and climate change, you know, other factors that influence our health may begin to seem less significant.
Amy So you mean that pollution is going to become a more and more significant impact on our health?
Kayla Yes. Especially if we don’t, you know, start to address it even more so, I would say.
Amy So I think, you know, what Clean Wisconsin’s trying to do is look at some of the contaminants that are in Wisconsin and connect to what we’re seeing on the public health side. How hard is that to do?
Kayla Oh gosh. I think it’s more hard to limit down the amount of contaminants that we can look at. Because everything can impact your health. If it’s going in your body, we want to know the effect of that. So I think the health consequences of environmental pollution and climate change have always been a part of Clean Wisconsin’s work. But Clean Wisconsin really wanted to Center Public Health. in our advocacy efforts, especially as we are seeing. potentially harmful health outcomes continue to increase and become more prevalent due to environmental pollution and climate change.
Amy So do you think that pollution really has an impact on just about everybody in Wisconsin in terms of their health?
Kayla Yes. Yeah. Um, regardless of if you live in an urban or rural area, I think. I mean, it’s all around us.
Amy It’s hard to think about pollutions all around us. Like we’re sitting here right now, it’s all around us right in this moment?
Kayla Yeah, it could be.
Amy Well, speaking of something that’s all around us, and I know it is, it’s plastic.
Kayla Yes.
Amy And for a long time, we really didn’t think much of plastic. I mean, we all played with plastic toys when we were kids. We all ate sandwiches wrapped in plastic wrap. I mean it’s, and it was just kind of like, oh, yeah. This is here. It’s fine. And I think then there kind of started to be this, hey, you know plastic doesn’t go away, it’s going to last in the landfills for a long time, and so then it seemed like, I would say, a marginal concern, right? Like, this plastic is not going to go away. We need to kind of stop it. Now we’re at, I think, a new level where we’re looking at microplastics. So we’re understanding that plastics don’t really go away they just get smaller and smaller until you I can’t see them. And now we’re thinking, what is going on in our bodies with all those microplastics? And that’s something you decided to take a look at. Why look at that?
Kayla So the short answer is that this is a relatively new area of research and a lot is unknown. And to date, most studies have actually been done in laboratory cell cultures or in animals. So one, more research is needed to understand how microplastics are affecting our health. Now, that being said, a few studies have been released in the previous couple of months that are making that connection between. microplastics and the impact on our health. And I’ll probably talk about that in a little bit. But essentially, we wanted to stay on top of this emerging contaminant as it has gained a lot of traction and a lot of attention lately. And I think that it is super important for Wisconsin specifically, as around 22 million pounds of plastic debris are accumulated in the Great Lakes every year. And in Lake Michigan, about 11.6 million pounds of plastic debris accumulates every year. You know, we, one, we need more research on this topic. And then two, I think we need to be treating microplastics like any other contaminant or chemical spill.
Amy Now let’s talk about plastic in our bodies because even just the amount that we have in our body is so hard to think about, I would say. So you know, you can hear those examples like we consume a credit card sized amount of microplastics every week. We all have about a… plastic spoon’s worth of microplastics in our brains. I mean, this is the kind of stuff where it’s kind of, it’s chilling and yet overwhelming because plastic is still all around us. So when you kind of dug into those things, what went through your mind?
Kayla Well, one, yeah, that analysis of we consume a credit card every week, although there’s been critiques on it, it’s severely alarming that we could even potentially be reaching that amount of consumption. The other thing that we mainly looked at was how are we exposed to these? How are humans exposed to this? And then what parts of the body are we seeing microplastics in? and then there’s about three primary concerns. uh, related to, um, how microplastics are impacting our health. So that first primary concern being that microplastic may interfere with normal cell function and tissue function. And that is simply due to being a foreign object inside of our bodies. The second primary concern would be that micro plastics have toxic additives, like flame retardants or plasticizers, that are harmful once introduced to the body. And additives, health effects of additives include affecting hormone function, include affecting brain development, kidney function, and reproduction. And then that third primary concern is that microplastics can absorb toxic pollutants in the environment, like PCBs or PFAS or heavy metals, which again can once cause harm to the body. I also did want to note that some researchers have stated that they also have the potential to be carriers for microorganisms or bacteria as well.
Amy So when plastics get in our bodies, it appears that they have a tendency to accumulate from the research that you’ve put together. What does that mean? Where are we finding plastics in people’s bodies?
Kayla We know that we’re getting a lot of exposure through various resources, or various sources, which I could also talk about. But microplastics have been found throughout the entire body, but mainly in the nervous system, the respiratory system, the cardiovascular system, and the reproductive system.
Amy So that’s like all the important systems! Maybe it’s all the systems. Okay. When you say it has been found, what’s happening in those parts of the body?
Kayla Yeah, so a recent study actually found, like you said, a typical adult brain has the equivalent of a plastic spoon’s worth of microplastics. And to be clear, that’s not a spoonful, but equivalent of a classic spoon itself. And in that same study, people with dementia were reported to have about 10 times more microplastic in their brain compared to those without the disease. And alarmingly, in that same study, they also found that microplastic concentrations in the body have grown by more than 50% between 2016 and 2024, which mirrors the increase in plastics in the environment.
Amy Now, for me, I feel like how is that possible? Because in my awareness as a person, I feel we are kind of being like, use less plastic. Don’t use plastic water bottles. There’s been this movement against plastic to some extent. Bring your reusable bag to the store. So how is it possible that we are using more plastic? Maybe I just live in a bubble and everybody else is using more?
Kayla I mean, projections show that our production of plastic is going to double by 2040 and potentially triple by 2060. So even though it may feel like we’re trying to, which we are, trying to reduce the use of plastic, the mass production of classic is still a major concern, I would say.
Amy And I think, you know, according to the brief that’s on Clean Wisconsin’s website that you pulled together, there’s also been microplastics found, I guess, in the arteries. What’s happening on that, I guess, system front?
Kayla Yes, yeah. So in that study, patients with carotid artery disease were found to have more microplastics in their arteries compared to those without the disease.
Amy You talked about, there’s been some look at how we’re exposed. Where is all this plastic coming from? You know, some people seem to have more than others. So what are the things that are happening to get plastics into our bodies?
Kayla Yes, so most microplastics come from the breakdown of larger plastic pollution. So for example, the plastic debris that I mentioned that’s in the Great Lakes, that plastic is breaking down and becoming microplastic. Another source of microplastics in the environment come from wastewater treatment plants. So microplasts are collected from the community at large from the wastewater treatment plants. And for example, plastic particles from washing machine discharge enter into that treated water. So we have plastic particles in our clothes, our synthetic clothing fiber like spandex and nylon and polyester. A third place that microplastics are found in our environment come from biosolids spread on farmland. So in fact, Hundreds of millions of particles are estimated to be transported into our rivers, lakes and streams from biosolids applied to farmland in Wisconsin every single year.
Amy Biosolids come from the wastewater treatment plants.
Kayla Correct. Yes.
Amy I’m going to get on a soap box for a second, so just bear with me. So I would say probably 15 years ago, it became a big thing in athletic wear to start wearing this sort of moisture-wicking clothes, and this was all polyester-type clothing. And even now, you can hardly find athletic clothing that is not made out of polyester. And, first of all, It’s not any more moisture wicking than anything else from what I can tell. And also it has a tendency to start to stink after a while. And so I just, nothing bugs me more than polyester like workout gear because it stinks, it’s plastic and it doesn’t do the thing any better than cotton or wool would. So I feel like it was just all a big marketing scam. But anyway, so I’m gonna get off my soap box now. And I think what’s interesting is people may not realize that the clothes that they wear are contributing this many microplastics into the environment, but that’s basically what’s happening.
Kayla Yeah, and those particles from your clothing that are being discharged via your washing machine are entering that water. And then eventually, that’s in your drinking water.
Amy It’s getting spread on plants as bio-solids and then running off into our waterways.
Kayla Correct, yeah. And another, if we move on to what we’re eating and what we are drinking, that’s a whole nother monster in itself. so. You know, like I said, microplastics enter the human body through inhalation and digestion, mainly. So breathing in microplastic and eating micro or consuming microplastics in micro plastics make their way into food chains. So particularly fish and other seafood. But they’ve also been found in other various sources of protein and also in fruits and vegetables. They can also get into foods during the processing stage as well. and then They’re also found in our drinking water sources. Like we touched on a little bit, but, so one study estimated that the typical, um, American diet leads to the ingestion of anywhere from 39,000 to 52,000, uh, micro plastic particles from seafood, honey, sugar, and alcohol alone.
Amy So honey, I guess if it’s in a plastic container, would start to, because it hangs out for a long time in a plastic container. Seafood I get, so I guess maybe buy honey and glass would be something you could do. It’s not always clear, I’ll guess, why these things contain more plastic.
Kayla Right, so, like I’ve stated before, this is a fairly new research topic, so a lot more research is needed, specifically with the connection to impacts on human health.
Amy And I think this is what makes this plastic conversation really hard because we know that plastic’s all around us. It feels like, well, I guess it’s too late. Is it too late to prevent the human health impacts of microplastic?
Kayla I would say no, I think there are plenty of things that we can do at the individual level but at the systemic level as well and using policy.
Amy So what are the things, first of all, the personal level? I mean, I think number one, people think about bottled water. How big of a deal is bottled water when it comes to our exposure?
Kayla Yeah, so bottled water in the US is estimated to have around 90 microplastic particles per liter. But a recent study also looked at nanoplastics. So I can define those two. So that’s even smaller. Yeah, microplastics, they range from their size anywhere from one micrometer, which is 100 times smaller than a grain of sand. all the way to five millimeters, which is about the size of a pencil eraser. Okay. And then a nano plastic is smaller than that one micrometer.
Amy Okay, well can those stick in the body?
Kayla Yes. So, Yes, so that one study, they looked at both nanoplastics and microplastics, and they found upward of 240,000 particles per liter, 90% of those being nanopластics, specifically for bottled water per liter. So how does that compare with tap water? Yeah, so in contrast, typical tap water in the United States contains about four microplastic particles per liter, so a lot less than plastic water bottles.
Amy Okay, so that’s one thing people can do on a personal level. I think about also all the plastic food packaging that’s out there. We mentioned honey. I’m going to guess it’s better to get a glass bottle of honey, but how much do you think changing our food packaging would help?
Kayla I think that would help dramatically. I think avoiding highly processed foods, if possible, would also be super helpful. A lot, like you said, a lot of our food comes in plastic containers. Thinking about never microwaving plastics, it’s especially important for bottle-fed infants who are more susceptible to developmental impacts of plastic exposure. You know, we’re also thinking about swapping plastic cutting boards for bamboo or wood cutting boards. I’ll pause there for a second.
Amy Yeah, you know, I’ve done that. I did that recently. The only rough time is when you’re doing like chicken.
Kayla You don’t want it to like stay in the wood or yeah.
Amy Yeah, yeah, so it’s hard. It’s hard to make these changes, but I think maybe a little bit at a time, also Maybe the clothing thing could be
Kayla Yeah. Helpful. Yeah. And thinking about thrifting your clothing or participating in what’s called a stuff swap is so Plastic Free Milwaukee is a local coalition in Milwaukee where they’re really working on community engagement and looking at cross-sector partnerships to reduce the use of single-use plastics. And they have an event called Stuff Swaps. so people show up. with stuff they may not use anymore, and they may swap it with someone else who has the need for it. So really thinking about thrifting your clothes and upcycling potential items that you have no use for anymore.
Amy I think it’s going to take thinking about plastic a whole lot more than we’ve been thinking about it. I know since I saw the study about the plastic spoon in our brains, my son really likes jello in his lunch and you can buy those little plastic containers of pre-made jello and I’m thinking why don’t I just go ahead and make jello. So I have some little glass containers that I send his lunch in and I make a little certainly a lot cheaper and you get a lot more flavors. I make the jello and then put the glass containers in his lunch and it’s fine, but it’s more work and it takes more thought and it is hard for people to do that for everything, so maybe pick a few things I guess.
Kayla Yeah, yeah, I would say start with one thing that you feel, you know, you can easily do and for me that was switching my cutting boards. But I’m glad that you mentioned that you know It may be difficult for some people to you know make these switches. And I want to circle back to you know switching to tap water because I did want to know that you do want to make sure that your tap water is safe. You know municipal systems are usually good, but if you’re a private well drinker, which a lot of Wisconsinites are, you do want to make sure to get your well tested and double check that you may not be switching microplastics for something equally as harmful or even possibly more harmful. So I did want to note that as well.
Amy And I think about those communities in Wisconsin that are getting bottled water for everything because they have PFAS in their wells, for example. So it feels like you have one terrible contaminant in your water. And so you try to switch to something safe. And there are also going to be contaminants in that. And that’s where that hopeless feeling starts keeping in. But it’s a good point, yes. I think municipal drinking water systems. people should feel some comfort who have municipal systems because they know that those are getting tested. You can look them up and see what all those test results are. Plenty of folks in Wisconsin don’t have that. That was my other soap–I’m on the soap box today. I don’t know. It’s easy to do on this topic, I swear. Yeah. So I think it’s just such a conversation that’s so hard to have because our society has leaned on plastic so much. It kind of feels like how did we even get here and why is it getting worse? Do you have any, I guess, perspective on why even just in the last 15 years we’re putting more plastic in the environment and people have more plastic in their bodies?
Kayla That is quite a big question, and unfortunately, I don’t necessarily know the answer right now. I would just say the mass production of plastic has made, I would say, life easier for a lot of people. It’s easier to store food. It’s easy to work out without feeling super sweaty, I guess. I guess so. I think the ease of what plastic has brought us for me personally. I think is why it continues to increase You know 98 percent of plastics are you know produced with fossil carbons, so
Amy But when you say fossil carbons, what do you mean, like oil?
Kayla Yeah. So a lot of those companies have kind of switched into, you know, plastic development or mass production of plastic.
Amy So, I mean, there’s people obviously who make money off of selling plastic. Certainly. So, there are all kinds of individual actions I think we can take to try to limit our exposure, but when there’s more and more plastic around us all the time, it’s going to be more and more difficult. So, what are the kind of policy things that we’re starting to look at to keep people safer from microplastics?
Kayla So to address this vast, widespread problem, policy change is going to be needed anywhere from the local organizational level all the way up to federal or even global level. For example, at the global level, thinking about what if we put in place a national cap on plastic production as a primary source of prevention all the down to the organizational level aware. You know, the health care sector is producing seven million pounds of plastic waste per day per day, per day.
Amy I thought you were going to say a year,! But OK, go ahead, go ahead.
Kayla Yeah. So trying to preserve essential uses of plastic, you know, with organizational policies are an important an important option as well. State level policies were seen. We could look at or Wisconsin could look out implementing what’s called extended producer responsibility laws. So about five states have implemented this, including our neighbors, Minnesota. And basically, these laws would have brands produce packaging and then also the remaining packaging must be free of toxins or toxics and also be recyclable or at least contained recycled materials. So that is one state policy avenue that we could take or option that we can take.
Amy It feels like, you know, you mentioned that oil companies are making some profits off of all this plastic. So what is the, I guess, reality that we’ll see some of these things pass?
Kayla I’m hopeful considering that we are seeing policies already start to pass at the state level that are addressing more of the root causes, like what brands and what producers are packaging or creating. So I feel hopeful about the situation. But we do have a long way to go. And I think passing policies or… creating coalitions like plastic-free MKE, where we’re really addressing local plastic, plastic waste. I think that’s where we are going to see a lot of change, thinking about that bottom-up policy implementation.
Amy I know it’s hard to tell people, hey, you have a plastic spoon’s amount of plastic in your brain, but is the raising awareness about plastics kind of a key thing?
Kayla 100%. I think, you know, prioritizing educational campaigns and providing education to students, you know that’s essential in this. Making people aware of the problem, I think would be honestly the first step to tackling this massive issue.
Amy Yeah, um, and I could just, you know, we could, I feel like we could have this discussion all day because now I’m thinking about that, you know, for example, the jello that I’m making for my son, it’s in a paper box and it’s in what appears to be a paper bag. But lining that paper bag is, of course, a little thin layer of plastic. It feels insidious, like, yes, uh, how can we possibly get a handle on this without some kind of policy, uh or something, some kind greater governmental intervention.
Kayla Right, yeah. And there’s a few other policies that we could start looking at on a smaller scale or be advocating for. And first, again, just prioritizing funding for research that is looking at or connecting how microplastics are impacting human health. Um, we can also be looking at policy solutions to reduce the single use plastics. Um, I think single use plastics are something that we could easily tackle and try to get rid of, um, like plastic bags, which again, we are seeing, which is awesome. Um, I think we can think about requiring ongoing monitoring of microplastics in drinking water. So again, treating it like any other contaminant that we’re seeing in drinking water, potentially passing laws that enable refilling water containers at places like maybe grocery stores or beauty stores, so places besides places of work or the mall or the airport. And then the Alliance for the Great Lakes, so they have a great policy toolkit where they are working to address microplastic pollution through policy solutions. So some of their suggestions included. I’m treating plastic pellet spills like other chemical spills.
Amy OK.
Kayla and then also requiring washing machine manufacturers to have built-in microfiber filters.
Amy Oh, OK. So how well does, I’m sure the nanoplastics maybe don’t filter out great, but some of the microplastics could filter out?
Kayla That is the idea, essentially.
Amy Well, thank you so much. And this is the first of probably many appearances for you on this podcast because the research is just getting started at Clean Wisconsin, and you’re going to be looking at all kinds of contaminants and what they’re potentially doing to our bodies. So. Enjoy that.
Kayla Yeah, some other research that we may be looking at includes assessing community water system violations, so looking at those health-based violations. We’re also going to be looking at public health benefits of renewable energy. And then even going more broadly, we’re going to look at cumulative impacts of environmental exposures and how that impacts. environmental burden in Wisconsin. So, looking at where is environmental burden occurring, who is being disproportionately impacted by environmental burden. So, in other words, looking at environmental burden disparities throughout the state of Wisconsin. And then in addition to that, we have a kind of like a partner analysis where we’re gonna be looking at or assessing drivers of that environmental burden in Wisconsin, looking at specific urban areas throughout the state. and what environmental exposures in those areas are more prevalent or more of an issue for their residents.
Amy So basically I guess where the pollution hotspots are in Wisconsin and where it’s coming from and who’s being impacted.
Kayla Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy And I think people think of pollution hotspot and they might think, you know, that they understand where they are and who is impacted. But as we talked about before, everybody is encountering some kind of pollution in a lot of communities in our state. are kind of having more type more of some things than than others. Yeah, kind of eye opening.
Kayla Right. Everyone is going to be facing, you know, potentially a different environmental exposure challenge within their community. So essentially we want these research briefs to be able to inform communities and inform neighborhoods on what effective interventions can they be putting in place to address the issue that they’re experiencing.
Amy Well, thank you so much for starting to do research on all this and taking the time to explain this very kind of overwhelming issue of microplastics. I really appreciate it.
Kayla Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Amy And thank you for listening to The Defender. For a look at research and some potential ways to protect yourself, I put a link in the show notes, or you can log on to CleanWisconsin.org. And if you have something you want me to talk about, a question or a comment, just reach out, podcast at CleanWisconsin.org, I’m Amy Barriilleaux, talk to you later.
